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You’re not the first to complain that Vancouver is no fun. You don’t like stretch pants. You don’t like gluten-free liars. You don’t like little dogs (you’re a sicko). That said, it’s true, there are some limitations to our fair city. We can’t drink outside. And we can’t bring dogs to the pub. You’re thinking of London, England. Sorry, but I’ve never seen a British comedy that I “got.”

Yet, every night of the week in Vancouver there is a room full of amazing comics baring their hilarious souls for you. Bet you didn’t know that. Every single night, all over the city.

You may not have known it before, but Vancouver is teeming with talented comedians you are going to wish you swiped right for once they get famous. And just like when you find out your cousin’s boyfriend’s brother’s friend does comedy, we’re going to ask them why they do what they do.

This month I sit down with comic Mark Hughes, and we talk about getting on stage for the first time, and the world of dark and dirty niche comedy.

Kristine Sostar McLellan: What’s the first thing people ask you when they find out you’re a comic?

Mark Hughes: Oh, where do you perform? And I go, all over the place. Oh really? Where? Have you ever been to that one on Burrard, Yuk Yuks? Then I go, that’s actually not Yuk Yuks. So I just say, you name it, I’ve done it.

KSM: There is that much comedy in Vancouver.

MH: Yeah, there’s dozens of shows a week. We have tons of shows, tons of comedy, but it’s like, the audience doesn’t know. I think they would come if they knew.

KSM: What I get asked most is why I do it.

MH: Why not? It’s fun. I started doing comedy a little over two years ago. I had been told for years that I should do it, because I used to write jokes on Facebook. One day someone said that I need a creative outlet, and I went, oh, okay. I think they meant pottery or oil painting or something like that.

KSM: And how did you start?

MH: Let’s take a couple steps back. I saw a comedian in 2012 named Jason Rouse do comedy… Keep in mind, I wasn’t like, a comedy guy. Unlike most comedians, who know all this comedians, I only knew the big names. That’s about it.

It was the first show I had ever been to and he did a bunch of comedy that I felt was really funny, it’s sort of offensive… I didn’t think you could do comedy like that. I thought it was too offensive and no one would… Even though I thought it was funny I didn’t know enough people would.

KSM: So you didn’t know there was niche comedy?

MH: Exactly. And this was at the Rio. Each of us paid ten bucks to be here. That thought just simmered. And the next year I tried standup.

KSM: That is a different story from most, who tend to grow up idolizing comics.

MH: It just had never been on my radar, I hadn’t been exposed to it. It’s funny… a lot of people I know, and noticed since I started doing comedy, have only seen the “big ones” too. Most people I know have never been to a comedy show. But I do think comedy is on an uprise. I think because of Netflix it will make a resurgence. More people will start trying it too.

KSM: So tell me about your first experience.

MH: I took a class, that’s how I did it. The classes are somewhat controversial. I’m glad I did it because it gave me… I paid $200 to get on stage. If I didn’t do that, I never would have gotten up. The class at least taught me, yeah, you gotta keep doing it, move the mic stand out of the way. I had a good time, I thought, I wanna keep on doing this.

KSM: And you’ve continued for more than two years… So I know you’ve had a bad experience by now. What was one of your worst?

MH: The most uncomfortable set I ever had was when, just as the MC was introducing me, half the room got up to smoke. Nothing to do with me, they just needed to smoke. The dynamic was just gone. And, I do the material and some of it’s a big edgy and there’s no annonymity in the audience, it feels like, like people aren’t allowed to laugh at it.

A girl even said to me “hey! That’s not funny” – and not in a bantery way. It was like, ugggggh. [motions a knife in the heart] I felt it in my soul. I wasn’t skilled enough to deal with that yet.

KSM: And now? How do you deal with hecklers now?

MH: I think I’m just more confident, so I’m better able to deal with it now. If shit like that comes up I can get into it with people. I’m not as scared about it.

KSM: Your comedy touches on a lot of personal stuff, but you really seem comfortable in your own skin and have a strong identity. Do you think that helps?

MH: Considering the way my life has been, it’s always weird to hear something like that. But it resonates with part of me, too. I think comics can talk about whatever they want as long as its funny.

Where I’m a bit different from maybe some of the comics we know is I’ve had a personal experience with every single dark subject I talk about. Friends dying of aids. Sexual abuse. Prostitution. Drug abuse. Overdose. Addiction. Kids being apprehended. My whole life for a long time was all that stuff.

KSM: So on the topic of dark comedy, let’s talk about the show you produce.

MH: I do a show called Comedy Shocker at the Rickshaw. It’s a dark and dirty comedy show, the only recurring one in Vancouver. On July 4th the headliner is Kathleen McGee. We have a lot of other people on it, too.

KSM: What drove you to create a show like this?

MH: My friend Jason [Kryska] and I started it because we got tired of hearing from people “oooooh, you can’t say that. You can’t say that. People don’t find that funny.” I know that there are people who find this funny. I wanted to make a show that is a safe zone for this kind of humor. No one is walking in, and not knowing what it is. If you’re someone who gets offended by x-y-z, then… We want everyone to have a good time… It really is like, a free speech room and if you don’t like it, then please don’t come.

KSM: You’d really rather not sell the ticket?

MH: I don’t want people who might get offended there, because no one is having fun then.

So, if you’re the kind of person who can handle it, don’t miss The Comedy Shocker Presents: Downward Spiral at the Rickshaw Theatre.

At first it was sincere excitement, I had finally found a quality pair of pants. The rarity of this should be noted––for me to find a pair with the right fit, loose but not saggy around my bulbous ass and thighs, is hard enough as it is, but to find ones that also stretch––this was momentous. I told the cashier that it was tough to decide between the “Modern” and the “Classic” fit but that I thought I ultimately made the right choice. He was surprisingly dismissive, responding only in grunt, which forced me to dive into greater detail.

“You know, sometimes you just need a little more space for your legs and I really believe the Classic fit does that for me.”

“I mean look at the stretch on ‘em! Look at how far I’m squatting down! Look! These are brand new! Didn’t even have to break ‘em in!”

“And this colour, what is it, like a deep navy? This is perfect. Not dark enough for the sun to bake my legs when I’m outside but dark enough to hide any stains.”

“You know how when you pee but you don’t pee it all out and you dribble a bit in your pants? I do that sometimes. I don’t think it’s a prostate thing. Either way, no one will be able to tell in these!”

“What? Yah, sure, they’re nice pants.” He finally conceded. Satisfied, I paid and left.

Talking Heads is an interview column devoted to contemporary arts and culture in Vancouver. Once a month, Sad Mag‘s Helen Wong sits down with a couple of interesting, unique individuals to discuss a topic of her choosing. This month’s topic? The sassy, fabulous and controversial world of drag.

Earlier this month I sat down with two queens, Jane Smoker and Tiffany Ann Co, to discuss their experiences and thoughts on drag. Jane Smoker is a professional drag queen. Having recently won Vancouver’s Next Drag Superstar, she’s slowly taking over the Vancouver scene and it has been a delight to watch. She is everything from edgy to glamourous as she continually pushes the boundaries of drag.

Tiffany Ann Co is an up and coming drag queen in Vancouver. Hailing from Richmond, she brings her Asian heritage into the mean girl world of Vancouver. Her performances are original and captivating, to the point where I’ve found myself watching them on repeat!

Helen Wong: How did you first get involved with drag?

Jane Smoker: I first got involved with drag when I moved out for the first time to live with my boyfriend and his roommate. We all lived in a one bedroom and found ourselves attending a lot of drag shows like Apocalypstick. Through this, I met the Cobalt queens and did my first show at Apocalypstick as Lindsay Lohan. From then on, it was just something I kept doing and it eventually evolved into Jane.

Tiffany Ann Co: I first got involved with drag during Halloween. My friends and I were brainstorming ideas for a group costume and we had settled on TLC. During our night out, we ended up winning a best group costume contest, which resulted in a promoter noticing us and booking us for future shows. The name Tiffany Ann Co emerged by playing with the letter T from my real name and incorporating the world of fashion, which is something that is very important in my life.

HW: How did you create the persona of Jane Smoker and Tiffany Ann Co? Does it feel like a construction?

JS: Jane’s persona is like a mix of Lindsay Lohan, Paris Hilton, Pamela Anderson, Courtney Love and Tara Reid. I’ve always been fascinated with these crazy, messy blonde celebrities. They appear to lead such chic lives with the way they dress but they are always getting arrested due to their partying and antics. Jane channels this contrast of beautiful people looking bad. Jane acts in a way that I wish I could act on a regular basis. She’s basically a hot mess. But with anyone, Jane has different sides to her and I like to play on her image, sometimes she’ll look more androgynous, and sometimes she’ll be very classy.

TAC: Tiffany kind of just takes over when I perform, but the idea of Tiffany was based off of the first performance I did on Vancouver’s Next Drag Superstar. She is the lovechild of an Asian Regina George and Blair Waldorf. I feel like Tiffany is an exaggerated form of my personality. She is like the rich Asian girl of Vancouver: a party girl at heart.

Tiffany Ann Co, photo courtesy of John Bello

HW: Does Jane Smoker or Tiffany Ann Co feel like an extension of yourself or like a completely separate entity?

JS: Initially, she definitely felt like a separate entity. When I first started out as Jane, I would always refer to her in third person. But the more I’ve been performing, the more I’ve become used to her. I’m at the point where I sometimes even refer to myself as Jane.

TAC: Tiffany feels like a character that is related to me, like a twin sister. I like to think of her as a characterized form of Tony that does things that I normally wouldn’t do. She is who I become on stage, but when I finish performing she just turns off and I go back to being myself. Tony isn’t a part of Tiffany; Tiffany is a part of me.

HW: What reactions have you received from friends and family when you first started performing?

JS: My parents were not okay with the fact that I was performing drag. They saw a picture of me dressed in drag at a Sharon Needles performance and confronted me about it. My parents are religious and believed that drag was a sign that I wanted to transition into a woman. I remember having to frantically scrub off my make up when I would meet up with them because I told them that it was a one-time thing. However, when it became impossible to hide, we had a big talk about it. Now, they see it as more of an artistic thing. I’ve always loved performing and view this as performance art.

TAC: I mainly received a lot of positive feedback and support from friends and family. I think Tiffany is a lot cooler than me, I find people want to know about Tiffany’s life more than mine! Sometimes it’s overwhelming when I have people coming up to me and recognizing me from Vancouver’s Next Drag Superstar because I feel so much like myself (Tony) even when I look like Tiffany.

HW: What is it that keeps you performing?

JS: I love to do it; it’s something that I’m passionate about. Other performers always inspire me and I have a huge vault of performance ideas to the point where I’m always trying to push my own limits and try new things.

TAC: I have been performing my whole life. I love the adrenaline and feeling I get on stage. It’s a fun process and something that I like to look back on especially since the way I perform on stage is largely constructed inside my head so it’s fun to watch performances back. I become a different person on stage, I have more confidence and attitude and I like how it’s different from who I am in everyday life.

HW: Drag as a performance often uses stereotypes associated with how woman are portrayed in the media regarding how they’re supposed to look. How do you think drag reaffirms or subverts this notion?

JS: I think this depends on the queen. There are classic queens who do create the look of big hips, big ass, big eyes and lashes. But I feel like drag has evolved. Drag is whatever fantasy you want to feel; it’s all about the fantasy because there are no rules in drag. For instance, I sometimes choose not to wear any padding on my chest or I choose to wear minimal butt padding, in this way I’m still beautiful without using any of the stereotypes portrayed in the media.

TAC: For lack of a better word, Tiffany is a bit of a slut. Like I said before, she does things that I normally wouldn’t do, such as deep-throat a banana. I think that there are different forms of drag and the way that I created Tiffany doesn’t necessarily use the normative stereotypes of what an ideal woman should be. I think the main difference is that I didn’t create Tiffany for men; I created her for girls.

HW: How do you think gender construction surfaces in drag? Do these issues occur to you while performing?

JS: I feel like I’m the classic example of a drag queen. I’m a gay man dressing up as a woman. But there are so many types of drag that it’s not so simple to categorize. Sometimes I will wear a bald cap, or I’ll have short hair; I’m androgynous one day and sometimes I won’t even look human.

TAC: Aesthetically I created Tiffany to be like a normal girl, someone you wouldn’t naturally notice in a crowd. A lot of drag queens like to go all out with their costume and make up, but the character I created doesn’t do that. Tiffany’s onstage persona is largely a comedic and sexualized version of how girls behave, so when I’m on stage I’m just performing.

HW: Drag by its very nature assumes and reaffirms gender roles through the performance of wearing clothing associated with certain genders. Do you think this further reifies traditional gender norms?

JS:There’s a wild cluster of clothing that performers are wearing. You can wear whatever you feel like. I generally like to look sexy but I can’t see why you can’t wear whatever you want. If you want to wear leaves all over your body and all over your hair, then do it. Real cisgender women don’t do that. Drag isn’t about clothing rules; kings can wear bras and underpants or queens can have beards. At the end of the day, it’s all just drag.

TAC: Clothing doesn’t have gender; society puts gender on clothing. I think drag allows us to put new norms on gender roles because clothing is a form of expression that doesn’t define who you are or dictate gender.

HW: How do you like being identified?

JS: I identify as a male, but, really, why put a label on gender these days? There’s such a broad rainbow spectrum of gender and I believe most people are gender neutral. We all have masculine and feminine sides within us.

TAC: I identify as male, but for some reason I like using the pronoun ‘she’ for everyone. Boy, girl, straight, gay—whatever. I don’t do this in a negative or conscious way; I find it’s just how I speak.

HW: What advice would you give to up and coming queens and kings?

JS: Be patient and don’t do it for anybody else but yourself. Do what makes you happy and don’t follow the rules. The beauty of drag is that it’s so punk you can make it anything you want it to be. I think you should find something that makes you unique. But also, have a mix of self-confidence and delusion.

TAC: My main advice would be to do whatever you want. Don’t let other people tell you how to act because a large part of your growth comes from experience. You should determine your own ‘right’ way, because who is to say if your art is right or wrong? Rules are meant to be broken. At the end of the day, you just have to be happy with yourself.

Want to see them in action? Jane Smoker and Tiffany Ann Co host Back It Up Thursdays at Celebrity Night Club. Jane is performing at Edmonton Pride and has weekly and monthly shows coming up, so stay tuned! Tiffany also has an event called Sorority House at Celebrities on July 16^th.

Ora Cogan is a BC-based musician first, jeweler second, with an environmentally conscious way and an affinity for creating. Ora is currently touring all over Europe, armed with tunes from her recent E.P., Crystallize, and a couple disposable cameras. On a down day she was so kind as to talk with us about her upcoming project, Fortresses–which she’ll be launching in Lisbon on June 4th–her creative process, and the common threads that tie her work together.

Photo by Luz Gallardo — Ora Cogan, photo by Luz Gallardo

Sad Mag: You’re no stranger to Vancouver. Where did we see you last? What have you been up to?

Ora Cogan: Vancouver is awesome! It will always be a home to me and I come pretty often to visit and work on creative projects, etc…

Since I’ve been gone… Well, I made some dear friends from Bella Bella and worked on a short documentary called No Tankers Territory about Heiltsuk Women’s perspectives on the Northern Gateway Pipeline and contributed some music to the sound track of a film called Northern Grease also dealing with tar sands and pipelines and all that insanity.

I also started making recycled silver jewelry under the name Heavy Meadow that helps to pay for all this music silliness.

With music, I’ve been working on a few projects other than Fortresses:

I’ve started playing with E.S.L.’s Joy Mullen. We’ll probably have some sort of band in the near future.

I recorded a new EP called “Crystallize” with Trish Klein from Hidden City Records at Otic Sound in Vancouver. It was a really wonderful experience. We got to work with Zach from Summering on drums, Caton (C.Diab) on bass and Chris Gerstrin among others. I’m really happy with how it turned out.

SM: What has drawn you towards this ethereal post-Americana style?

OC: I spent quite a lot of time listening to old blues like Geeshie Wiley, and Skip James as well as Mediterranean music like Marika Papagika and Rembetika… As far as aesthetics go, I’ve always been a bit of a dreamer… I like making music that sounds landscape-ish and romantic. I am also pretty nature obsessed, so I’ve written a lot of songs that are kind of about human drama, but also [about] a place I’ve had some kind of connection with.

SM: Was it always natural for you to be a performer?

OC: Haha… Hell no. I get so nervous. Sometimes the songs are so personal and it can be hard to get into being that vulnerable or I worry if it’s really valuable to other people, but I’m starting to finally see how similar we are and it’s easier to just connect thinking that way. Music is such a great way to find autonomy too and l love playing live shows even when it’s a bit scary. Improvising keeps things pretty real. I’ve also been using visual projections and experimenting with different approaches.

SM: From where do you derive your inspirations?

OC: Oh goodness…just the bizarre experiences you can have being alive on this strange little planet! I’m confused and fascinated all the time. People… especially people who are really true to themselves and each other.

I can dance in the kitchen to D’Angelo or Deerhoof or really whatever you throw at me. I’m in love with music and I have a few personal heroes for sure: Joni Mitchel, Irma Thomas, Billie Holiday, Karen Dalton, Bjork, Neil Young… If you’re talking about aspects of life… I write about love, about struggles, justice also about subtle feelings that are hard to communicate in any other way… The lyrics are usually a bit abstract and I wish I could be more articulate with the topics that I care about, but the lyrics come out vague, so I try to respect that.

SM: Could you describe what one could expect from Fortresses?

OC: Texture, beauty, and darkness. I want to play and feel free to try things with this project that I wouldn’t usually do as a folk singer… so it’s going to be an adventure. I’m using lots of layers of guitar, violin, harp, voice, etc., and then adding midi and synth drones/lines… It’s going to be very full and maybe even danceable at some point? We’ll see…

SM: What were your goals for Fortresses when the project was first conceived?

OC: To try something new, to have a bit more fun and to do something a bit bolder…

SM: Do you have a “creative process”?

OC: I write all the time, about anything, but a song always starts with a melody and it’s really not a very conscious thing… the lyrics just come from somewhere and then I step back and build around whatever comes up. It could start with something small when I’m messing around at sound-check or practicing… Sometimes I’ll start humming something when I’m walking or at work and just record it quickly, then come back to that idea later. The biggest trick for me is privacy and having a soft focus, not being too critical.

SM: Is there a common thread to the music that you make?

OC: I’m really up for trying anything but I come back to pretty, gentle and dark most of the time. Sometimes it’s angry or happy or whatever; I’d never want to be quarantined to a certain feeling or style forever, but there’s definitely a thread that keeps pulling me in that dark, gentle, introverted direction…

SM: What has been the most surprising thing about creating your art and then displaying it for the world to see?

OC: I’ve been really fortunate to get to connect with underground music communities all over Europe and North America. It’s been inspiring to see how much amazing art & music is out there and to meet so many kind and interesting people.

Take a first listen to Fortresses‘ “Winter” here, or check out the stunning music video (shot by Luz Gallardo) here:

This interview has been edited and condensed.

It was a move of passion––nearly instinctual. You were straddling me as we kissed on the couch and I stood up as you held on like a koala and slowly navigated us towards the bed; doing my best to avoid the coffee table, the chair and my clunky oversized bicycle on the way. I almost lost balance when I noticed a pair of my dirty underpants on the floor and casually tried to kick them out of sight.

Then came the sound. I squatted to lower you onto the bed and it was like a gunshot. A cannonball fired from a pirate ship oddly moored in my apartment. My pants had exploded from my scrotum to the soft patch of skin above my ass that acts as a foyer to the fleshy mound before it splits like an embryo into two hairy cheeks. I felt the breeze from the open patio door on my bottom. You held your composure as long as you could before crumbling into laughter. I didn’t think it was that funny. I really liked those pants.

The boardroom at the parks department was hot, humid, and full of media and piles of us skateboarders who were filling the seats and every available space on the floor. We were waiting to speak in opposition of an asinine motion concerning the removal of a well-loved and utilized skatepark. But first there was another item on the docket—the proposed zipline at Queen Elizabeth park.

Yes, a zipline. Because it’s always best to have a quick exit readily available at popular tourists spots for when your relatives come to visit and your grandpa starts talking about “all of the damn Filipinos that are moving to town” again. The commission asked you general questions about your company’s proposal like “What does the zipline’s revenue model look like?” and “What will be the environmental impact?” before lobbing you a softball. An easy homer. “Is it true that 1/10 people who ride the zipline are squealers?” Admittedly it was a strangely worded question but not as strange as your answer.

“I’m not sure about that statistic, I mean, this isn’t an episode of Deliverance.”

There were two fucked up things about your response. First, Deliverance was a movie starring a sans-mustache Burt Reynolds, not an episodic. Second, you just made a wildly tangential reference to one of the most infamous rape scenes in cinematic history at a public and televised Parks Board meeting. A few of us gasped. The board voted almost unanimously in favour of the zipline.

“Oh, the skateboard man, the skateboard man, skateboarding down the road as fast as he can!” You sang to me while I walked down the alleyway. Before you broke out in song you had been raking gravel back and forth across the road, not collecting leaves or trying to get pieces of a broken bottle into a manageable pile; you were just raking rocks and dust while wearing a very comfortable looking ivory white sweat suit.

And I’m not sure why you began singing about my skateboard and me. Maybe you saw how upset I was and you wanted to cheer me up, or you were just looking for an excuse to play your rake like a guitar. Either way, I instinctively started to sing along and banged on my air drum-set like an Albertan Neil Peart, using my skateboard as an exaggerated drumstick. When we’d finished I thanked you and kept on down the road, face wet with tears, even more confused than before.

Finger guns are a key aspect of Kim's creative process. — Finger guns are a key aspect of Kim’s creative process.

So you want to live a more passion-filled, purposeful and creative life . . . riiiight after you watch that Seinfeld re-run, organize your Tupperware drawer, talk to your cat Professor Snuggles, and water your cactus plant. Sound familiar? The anxiety over starting a creative project and making it perfect can be so overwhelming at times that we’d rather do almost anything else. Solution? Do it—and make it ugly. In fact, Make it Mighty Ugly says Kim Piper Werker, the author behind the motivating handbook for vanquishing creative demons.

Sad Mag: Tell us a little bit about yourself:

Kim Piper Werker: I’m a writer and editor in Vancouver. I’ve worked for the last decade in the crafts industry, editing magazines and writing books. In 2010, I started a project to address some of the issues I kept bumping into personally and professionally—it involves making something ugly. On purpose. Personally, this addressed a nagging habit I had of feeling very concerned that people would discover I wasn’t actually very crafty. I was so plagued by this feeling that I’d often sabotage my own projects. If something was going really well, I’d sort of intentionally mess it up, to save myself from feeling the pressure to keep it going well. Nuts, I know. But that self-doubt (or, maybe, that certainty that I wasn’t talented or creative or skilled enough to make something great), fear of failure and perfectionism are pretty much universal – everyone feels some of all of that at some point or another (or all the time). Anyway, the ugly thing really stuck with me, and it’s been my primary focus for the last few years.

More personally, I was born in Brooklyn, New York, and moved to Vancouver twelve years ago. I love to read books, chill with my family, and I’ve gotten a little obsessed lately with making soap.

SM: I admit that I’m a little envious of your New York roots. What was growing up in Brooklyn like? What drew you to Vancouver?

KPW: I grew up in a lower-middle-class neighbourhood of Brooklyn called Canarsie—probably one you haven’t heard of, eh? My family lived on the top floor of a post-war three-story walk-up, and I really and truly had that childhood where I played in the street with the neighbour’s kids and my mom would yell out the window for me to come inside for lunch. I walked to school by myself from the time I was six, and I was heartbroken when my family moved to a suburb of another city in New York State when I was ten. I was a city kid, man. The suburbs seemed like another planet to me.

At the same time, I really loved the open space of living closer to the country, and because I spent my summers in day camps or overnight camps way out in the middle of nowhere, that love of nature created some confusion for me and my simultaneous love of the city. So when I was in university, I decided, without ever having been there, that San Francisco was my obvious goal. I’d move there and have both city and a slower pace and some nearby open spaces.

Then, when I was in grad school when I was twenty-three, I met a guy I ended up marrying, and he had grown up in Vancouver. He’s the only person I’d ever known who couldn’t wait to move back to his hometown, and when he brought me to Vancouver for the first time to visit, I discovered that it had everything I’d wanted out of the mythical San Francisco, and I fell in love with Canada, too. So after we got married, we moved here, and though I find the city a little slow for my taste sometimes, and a little lacking of the gruffness and openness of urban life I really value as a New Yorker, I love it here.

SM: What inspired you to write Make it Mighty Ugly?

KPW: I’d been doing Mighty Ugly workshops for a couple of years when I had the idea of writing a book inspired by it. In my workshops, I walk people through making an ugly creature that’s intentionally hideous. It’s a great challenge for a lot of people, and very liberating for others. Every time I’d lead a workshop, I’d have at least one utterly fascinating conversation with someone about the exercise. One day I decided I wanted to explore the idea in-depth—how and why it’s important to me, how and why I think it can help people address their own creative demons, etc.

SM: Why make something “mighty ugly?” How does this process liberate the artist within?

KPW: It’s just something we’re never, ever asked to do. Which makes it a very different sort of exercise, and difference – and the discomfort that comes with it – can be tremendously liberating. Making something ugly on purpose forces us to be aware of how we consider beauty/aesthetics/marketability/appeal in ways we usually just take for granted when we make things. And for people who don’t consider themselves creative, who may not focus on beauty/aesthetics/marketability/appeal in the course of their daily lives, making something ugly on purpose removes the pressure they feel (for surely they feel it, whether they realize it or not) to make something that possesses those qualities, something they’re inclined to say off the bat that they can’t do.

SM: Why do you suppose fear of failure is the ultimate enemy of creativity?

KPW: That assertion was pretty much marketing copy. I think perfectionism is no less powerful an enemy of creativity. But fear of failing is a fabulous excuse to give up on an idea before you even try it out. So I suppose maybe it really is the ultimate enemy of creativity, because we use that fear as a reason not to even try.

SM: How do you make time for creative projects? Do you follow a schedule or are you more spontaneous?

KPW: No schedule for me. I’m doing a project this year called #yearofmaking, for which I’ve committed to making something—anything—every day. Sometimes it’s spaghetti and sauce from a jar for dinner. Sometimes it’s starting an art journal or knitting a few rows on a scarf. Sometimes it’s making a batch of cold-process soap. So for at least a few minutes every day, I make something.

SM: How do you set the mood for creativity?

KPW: I don’t. I just make stuff or write stuff. If I get really into it, I allow myself to push other things aside so I can follow it through, but I don’t think creativity is some divine sort of thing that requires a particular mood. As author/artist Austin Kleon wisely says, creativity is a tool. I make sure I use it frequently.

SM: What music are you listening to right now? What book is by your bed?

KPW: I’m not! I have a timer ticking in the background to help me focus (go Pomodoro Technique!), and my dog’s barking at someone walking by outside. The book by my bed is The Faraway Nearby, by Rebecca Solnit.

SM: What advice do you give aspiring creatives?

KPW: Stop aspiring, start creating.

Kim will be joining two authors, Leanne Prain (author of Strange Material: Storytelling through Textile) and Betsy Greer (author of Craftivism) – on a book tour in October. Details can be found online.

Also, check out her blog, and the Mighty Ugly website (with a book-group guide and more info about the book, etc.). Other online stuff: kpwerker on Twitter, Instagram and Pinterest.